Posted in: Calvinism, False Doctrines
Disputed by Calvinsts Refuted by the Truth
Posted on August 21, 2011
Calvinists falsely use the scripture from Isaiah to support their doctrine.
Calvinists use verse 6, “All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all
our righteous acts are like filthy rags.” However, Calvinists do not
mention the scripture just two verses up, verse 4, how Isaiah tells us about
God who acts on behalf of those who wait for him. Then, verse 5 tells us how
God will come to the help of those who gladly do right, who remember His ways.
Isaiah says, “But when we continued to sin against them…” This tells us that
people WANT to do right, but cannot stop sinning against God’s ways. That is
why we need a Savior. It does NOT mean what Calvinists say, that we CANNOT
believe in God on our own.
Isaiah 64
1 Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down,
that the mountains would tremble before you!
2 As when fire sets twigs ablaze
and causes water to boil,
come down to make your name known to your enemies
and cause the nations to quake before you!
3 For when you did awesome things that we did not expect,
you came down, and the mountains trembled before you.
4 Since ancient times no one has heard,
no ear has perceived,
no eye has seen any God besides you,
who acts on behalf of those who wait for him.
5 You come to the help of those who gladly do right,
who remember your ways.
But when we continued to sin against them,
you were angry.
How then can we be saved?
6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
7 No one calls on your name
or strives to lay hold of you;
for you have hidden your face from us
and have given us over to our sins.
8 Yet you, LORD, are our Father.
We are the clay, you are the potter;
we are all the work of your hand.
9 Do not be angry beyond measure, LORD;
do not remember our sins forever.
Oh, look on us, we pray,
for we are all your people.
See what Isaiah says, “BUT WHEN WE CONTINUED TO SIN …… YOU WERE
ANGRY. HOW THEN CAN WE BE SAVED?”
All of us have become like one who is unclean. If they were born totally
depraved, THEN HOW can they BECOME as one who is unclean? Furthermore, this
passage is about how even though the Jews were the chosen ones of God, they
were just like any other people, they sinned like others. How do Calvinists
explain that not all the chosen and elected Jews were not believers in Jesus?
Calvinists teach that God gives His Spirit to His elected and chosen. That is
incorrect beliefs, for God hardened some of His elected chosen people. In the New Testament, Jesus tells us that God
now chooses those who come to Him through the blood of His Son. That means He chooses those who believe and
obey Jesus.
The righteous act of giving an animal to sacrifice for a blood offering
became like a filthy bloody rag offering because they kept sinning. That is what makes their offering a filthy rag
offering, and it is not because we are all filthy even if we do what God says,
no, for they are to do right by obeying God and repent of our sins so that their
righteous acts are not as bloody rag offerings.
No One Is Righteous
Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he
appealed to God against Israel:
Romans 3:9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at
all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all
under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under
the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held
accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s
sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of
our sin.
Paul is quoting Psalm14:1-3; 53:1-3; and Ecclesiastes 7:20. Ecclesiastes
SAYS there is not a RIGHTEOUS man who does what is right and NEVER SINS.
Ecclesiastes tells us that there ARE RIGHTEOUS men but none who NEVER sin. Paul
is explaining that the Jews were sinners just like the Gentiles. Nowhere in
these passages or scriptures anywhere does it say none can believe and obey on
their own. In this same Ecclesiastes 7, Solomon tells us about wise men,
righteous men, and about a man who pleases God. Solomon also tells us that he
found one upright man among a thousand. That is proof that the Bible tells us
that there are people who want to do right and that people can do right.
You have to know that there are righteous people. The Bible says so. There
just was no one so righteous that they were without any sin.
Isaiah 64:4 For from days of old they have not heard or perceived by ear,
Nor has the eye seen a God besides You, Who acts in behalf of the one who waits
for Him. 5You meet him who rejoices in doing righteousness, Who remembers You
in Your ways. Behold, You were angry, for we sinned, We continued in them a
long time; And shall we be saved?
Now read on to Romans 3:21-26. This part like others Calvinists do not seem
to recall when trying to get others to follow their doctrine.
Righteousness Through Faith
Romans 3:21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law,
has been made known,
Did you hear that? Paul shows there IS a righteousness of the law, but now
there is a righteousness APART from the law.
to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God
comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified
freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God
presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.
Did you read that? It is about BLOOD. It is no longer of blood of
animals that justify, but now it is by Jesus’ blood, the blood of the Lamb of
God.
The works of the law were about the purification works of the law. We
no longer have to get circumcised and sacrifice animals, but we still have to
obey God by doing what He says.
He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had
left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his
justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those
who have faith in Jesus.
We see that there are those who want to obey God–now is made known
a way–faith in Jesus Christ. The way has been MADE KNOWN. The way is not some
secret that a select few get to know about, in some mysterious way. The way has
been MADE KNOWN. We have the choice to believe in God or reject Him.
The scriptures say that this righteousness from God comes through faith in
Jesus Christ TO ALL WHO BELIEVE. This does NOT even imply that God MAKES humans
BELIEVE by first giving them a special enabling by the Holy Spirit. THERE IS NO
DIFFERENCE, FOR ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD…
That scripture says all have sinned and proves all can be saved if
they repent of their sins, and is does NOT mean all sin the same sins and the
same amount, and that no one does anything good ever, it means that there is no
one who never sins; it means all HAVE sinned and fall SHORT of the glory of
God, even the chosen Jews. Furthermore, the worst is rejecting Jesus. Just as
not everyone sins exactly the same sins, not everyone sins the sin of rejecting
Jesus. If a person is predestined to be enabled to believe (as the reformers
teach), how is it one can go through most of their life not being a Christian,
then believe in Jesus later? If they were predestined to believe even before
they were born, then why did not God enable them to believe and obey the first
time they heard the message? If someone does not believe in Jesus when learned
of him the first time, how is it this same person can believe and obey in him
later? The answer is obvious to those who believe that we have a choice; it is
because we do have a choice. God is not
responsible for our sinning and for keeping us in sin.
Note too that Paul is not speaking of a new way that doesn’t require
obedience! Paul is speaking about obeying this man Jesus, and this man Jesus
purifying us, instead of blood from animals. We are purified now not by
ourselves doing the old law’s purification works, but now purified by just
having faith that Jesus does the purifying, and that is after confessing and
repenting of your sins, then calling on Jesus to save you, to give you his
Spirit to live in you.
The topic is about those who God elected! God elected who He elects because
we have faith in His Son–God works all things according to his will–which
those who believe in His Son, God will save them, and those who do not, God
will not save.
In Romans 8:29, God foreknown people are about the Jews. Paul explains that
God did not reject and cut off and harden forever the foreknown Jews.
Paul does not imply we cannot believe on our own free will. NOWHERE in the
scriptures does it say we cannot believe on our own after learning of Jesus. If
it is not in the Bible, then it is not the word of God. If it is not in the Bible, then it is man’s
doctrine and teaching. For those God FOREKNEW he also predestined, the Jews are
those God foreknew, and predestined to do what? Predestined TO BE CONFORMED TO
THE LIKENESS OF HIS SON. Paul is explaining that even though some Jews were cut
off, they are still of those who are predestined to be conformed into the
likeness of His Son, after Jesus was crucified, if they don’t continue in
disbelief. Paul says he is proof that
God did not reject the Jews, His people, those He foreknew, for Paul says he
himself is a Jew of Jews and is saved.
The Bible tells us that the Jews are those who God foreknew. See Romans
11:2. God foreknew the Jews because they were His people who had a covenant
with Him.
All Reformers confuse the scriptures that are about the Jews who were cut
off and hardened for the grafting in of the Gentiles as being proof God has to
enable people first to cause them to believe. Paul explains that God can hold
people accountable for sinning by not believing. God held the Jews accountable for not having
faith in Him before Jesus came, and He lets them be grafted back in since Jesus
was lifted up from the earth, crucified.
God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew.
Reformers claim those God foreknew and predestined were the only ones God saves,
when the scriptures show us that those foreknown are the ones who were cut off
and rejected by God! The Calvinists do not understand what predestines means
that it is about the plan for salvation, and they don’t understand what the
scriptures mean about those God foreknew and elected, it is about the foreknown
Jews whom God had a relationship with before the Gentiles.
Paul in Romans is telling all the people that the people God foreknew he
ALSO CALLED and predestined (made the plan for them too to be saved through
Jesus) See Romans 8:29,”29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to
be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many
brothers and sisters.”
Paul is letting all know that even though Jews were hardened-they were not
hardened forever-and kept from being saved and that God ALSO predestined them
and not just the Gentiles.
Do not miss what God is telling us in Ephesians 1, nor add or subtract what
God says. Ephesians 1:4-11, For he chose us in him before the creation of the
world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for
adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and
will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in
the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the
forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he
lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the
mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in
Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to
bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ. 11 In him we
were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who
works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
From verse 4, For he chose us in him before the creation of the world TO BE
HOLY AND BLAMELESS IN HIS SIGHT.
THE PLAN IS PREDESTINED TO MAKE US HOLY AND BLAMELESS.
In verse 11, in Jesus, we were chosen. We have been predestined according to
the plan. Nowhere does this scripture say that God would enable all who would
believe, to believe. What this scripture says is that God predestined us
according to the plan, and the plan is that we have access to grace though
faith!
The only thing that is clear is that the plan is predestined, and that God
knew who would believe.
NOW GO JUST TWO SCRIPTURES FURTHER AND READ EPHESIANS VERSE 13 CAREFULLY:
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth,
the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a
seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
And you ALSO were included in Christ WHEN YOU HEARD THE MESSAGE OF TRUTH…
WHEN YOU BELIEVED… THEN, you were MARKED IN HIM WITH A SEAL, THE PROMISED
HOLY SPIRIT. It does not say you were included when you were enabled. No such thing as a special enabling after Jesus
walked the earth…remember, only the Jews who already had faith in God before
Jesus came were able to come to Jesus.
They came to Jesus to be saved because they recognized what Jesus said
as being the words of God. See John
6:45. The Jews who were cut off and hardened for not having faith in God before
Jesus came were only cut off and hardened while Jesus was on the earth.
Stop believing the twisted strange doctrine of John Calvin and the other
reformers; believe on the Word of God! The scriptures do not say what the Reformed
denominations teach, and that is that God enables us to believe first by giving
us the Holy Spirit first, instead of the truth that our being able to hear and
believe and obey by confessing and repenting is how we are given the Holy
Spirit. Calvinists, all Reformers, say we are born again first and then enabled
to believe; however, the scriptures say we believe first, and then given the
Holy Spirit, then we are born again.
I have some questions for Calvinists. I sincerely hope that someone here can
answer my questions.
Calvinists believe that no one can accept God on their own. They believe
that God causes people to believe by the Holy Spirit.
Question one: Calvinists believe that no one can accept God on their own.
Which scripture or scriptures say that?
Read Galatians 3:2. In Galatians 3:2 we read that Paul asks the Galatians if
they received the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?
Question two: the Galatians received the Spirit. AFTER hearing the gospel
and believing. Why do Calvinists say they received the Holy Spirit after
special regeneration enabling before they believe? No scripture anywhere says
that. Read this scripture it says the
Galatians had to have Christ formed in them again.
Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until
Christ be formed in you,
Question three: If they were predestined to be saved, how could they need to
have Christ formed in them all over again?
That also disproves the Reformers false once saved always saved
doctrine.
Question four: Why did Paul not say something like ‘I would like to learn
just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by
God regenerating you with the Holy Spirit so that you can believe?’
Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the
message is heard through the word of Christ.
Question five: In Romans 10:17, why does Paul not say something different
like, ‘Consequently, faith comes from the Holy Spirit enabling you to believe,
and therefore allowing you to accept the message’?
1 Thessalonians 2:13 And we also thank God continually because, when you
received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the
word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you
who believe.
Question six: Why did Paul not say ‘…which is at work in you who were
enabled to believe’? I mean, Paul is taking time to explain carefully to the
Thessalonians, so why not explain more adequately according to your beliefs?
Hebrews 4:2 For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they
did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who
heard did not combine it with faith.
Question seven: Why in Hebrews 4:2 did Paul not say something like, ‘For we
also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they
heard was of no value to them, because those who heard were not enabled to have
faith to believe it’?
In Romans 5:1-2 we are told “…we have peace with God through our Lord
Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in
which we now stand.
We have gained access by faith…there is no mention of the access in which
Calvinism teaches, and that is by having access by the Holy Spirit first
enabling us before belief.
Calvinism as a whole adds to Romans 5:1-2. Romans 5:1-2 is complete and
accurate on how we get access to grace. Paul is revealing something extremely
important here; he is explaining how we get access. Paul is explaining how we
get access, and he does not say we get access the way Calvinists say, and that
is by the Holy Spirit enabling us to have faith.
Do you see anyone anywhere in the scriptures teaching and saying to hope
that you will be given a special enabling?
No. That false teaching from the Reformers
are adding to the Word of God.
If you know Calvinism, then you know that Calvinists believe we can only
have access to grace by faith that God has enabled to believers by the Holy
Spirit.
Again, this scripture has Paul explaining how believers get access. In
addition, nowhere does it say through enabling of the Holy Spirit.
Paul’s explanation is accurate and complete. To say otherwise would be to
distrust what Paul is saying.
1 Peter 1:2 who have been chosen ACCORDING TO the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God the
Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus
Christ and sprinkled with his blood:
Who have been chosen according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God THROUGH THE
SANCTIFYING WORK of the Spirit. This scripture is about the plan for salvation
through the death of Jesus being what is the foreknowledge. God choses us who
come to Him through Jesus and those are the ones who get sanctified. God
chooses those who believe and want to do what they were told to do to get
sanctified.
Acts 2:23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and
foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by
nailing him to the cross.
Again, the PLAN WAS PREDESTINED. Jesus was handed over to those men by God’s
deliberate plan and FOREKNOWLEDGE. The
Jews who did not have faith in God before Jesus came, they were cut off and
hardened so that they could not hear and have faith and repent and be saved through
Jesus. God’s plan was that those
faithless Jews would have part in having Jesus killed. Paul says that some of the Jews might then
say then why does God blame us? Paul
explains that God could hold people accountable for their sins if He wants.
When we were dead in our transgressions, which are sins, and in the
uncircumcision of our sinful nature, God made us alive with Christ. He forgave
all our sins. See Colossians 2; 13; Ephesians 2:1; and 2:5. This is about Paul
explaining to us that God saved us and didn’t make us get circumcised first.
God saves us after we confess and repent of our sins and while we still have to
work out our salvation.
We did not come to know Christ while we were indulging in impurity…we came
to know Christ when we HEARD of him and were TAUGHT, with regard to our former
way of life, to put off our old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful
desires, to be made new in the attitude of our minds, and to put on the new
self, created to be like in true righteousness and holiness. See Ephesians
4:18-24.
Nowhere in the scriptures does it say what Calvinists and all Reformers say
that God’s will was to make people who could not believe on their own. Nor do
the scriptures show that God did not want some people to believe. On the
contrary, the Bible tells us that God desires that people turn from wickedness
so He would save them. In addition, read what Jesus says to Jerusalem:
Luke 13:34 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone
those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as
a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
Jesus says they were not willing. Not because God did not design them
to ever believe. Jesus blames them, but Calvinists blame God for not enabling
them. Do you think Jesus needed John Calvin to explain the need for enabling
first? Why would Jesus even plead with them if they were rejecting him because
God did not enable them to receive him? Jesus is pleading with them because
they DO have a choice, yet they refuse to come to Jesus. That is their sin,
Jesus called, and they refused.
That no one seeks God. Paul quoting from Psalms 14:1-3.
1 The fool says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.
The LORD looks down from heaven
on the sons of men
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.
3 All have turned aside,
they have together become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.
“All have turned aside,” if they are all born totally depraved,
how can they have turned aside?
Paul says none seek God, no not one, did you know that Paul is quoting the
Old Testament scripture?
Did you know that Paul is quoting King David?
Paul is explaining that the Jews were sinful too, in many ways like the
Gentiles were.
What is King David saying where Paul quotes?
Listen carefully; Paul is quoting king David who at that time in which David
speaks, the people are in a bad condition inside Israel. When the day spoken of
arrived, the day where king David says what he says—no one searched for God.
However, if no one ever searched for God, ever, then how was it that the
Israelites called out to God to help them when they thought God had forgotten
them while they were slaves in Egypt?
Exodus 3:9 And now the cry of the Israelites has reached me, and I have seen
the way the Egyptians are oppressing them.
Deuteronomy 26:7 Then we cried out to the LORD, the God of our ancestors,
and the LORD heard our voice and saw our misery, toil and oppression.
If no one ever searched for God, then why do the scriptures say people did
in the New Testament, when Jesus arrived, people shouted: “Son of David, have
mercy on me”. They were looking for the Messiah. In the New Testament a blind
man was searching for the Son of God, the prophet’s had said would come. I just
showed you that people do search for God.
Again, Paul was explaining that the Jews were sinners like the Gentiles,
even though the Jews were supposed to be God’s Holy people. The Jews were God’s
people and now Gentiles were getting to be included in the New COVENANT. Paul
explains that God’s people the Jews sinned not unlike the many Gentiles, but
now ALL CAN BE SAVED through Jesus and the New Covenant.
The Jews were sinners like the Gentiles in that they did not always seek
God.
The Old Testament believers in God were God’s people. Not all Old Testament
Jews were true believers. The people who believed in God, God gave them to
Jesus. God’s people who believed in Him, they now had to go through Jesus in
faith to continue with God, this faith in Jesus made them perfect. They are the
people who God enabled to come to Jesus during Jesus’ ministry on earth. The
Jews who did not believe in God, God hardened them so they were not able to
come to Jesus. The people who are drawn to Jesus, they are drawn because they
are already believers in God the Father. The people who believe in God, they
recognize what Jesus says as God’s word, and in this, they are drawn. John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will
never drive away. John 6:44, 45 “No one can come to me unless the Father who
sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written
in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the
Father and learned from him comes to me.
The people were already God’s, now they would become Jesus’ people. Those
who did not believe in God, they were hardened. God did not allow them to come
to Jesus. Only a remnant, the lost sheep of Israel would come to Jesus (Matthew
10:6; 15:24). John 17:6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out
of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your
word. See also, John 3:37, 39; 6:65; 10:26, 29; 15:21-24; 16:3; 17:2, 9, 24;
Romans 11:4, 5, 7; Hebrews 12:23; 11:39-40. John 8:19 Then they asked him,
“Where is your father?” “You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus
replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”
When Jesus sent the apostles to the Gentiles, he sent them to a people that did
not search for God. Many knew of God but
did not enter the Covenant of circumcision and do the rest of the purification
works to belong to God. The Gentiles and
all people now, we all have to search for God to be known by Him. However, again, during the New Testament
times, the apostles were sent to all people, even the people who did not seek
him.
Isaiah 65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them
that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not
called by my name.
Calvinists think “all men” in John 12:32 is only “all men” of the saved, of
the elect, and that it doesn’t mean “all men” of the world. The Calvinists
say it is not all men in the world, but that is only all men of the elect, the
saved. However, the truth is, it is all men of the world.
John 12:32 “But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to
myself.” However, up until this time, Jesus came only for the lost sheep of
Israel. The lost sheep of Israel were the ones who were not hardened for they
believed in God. In the other scriptures where “all men” is used, this is
precisely to “all men” in the world. These other scriptures that say “all men”
are after God had included Gentiles.
Philippians 1:29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only
to believe in him, but also to suffer for him,
Calvinism falsely uses Philippians 1:29 to support Calvinism. It was GRANTED
to the Gentiles to believe in Jesus. There is not special granting to those who
do not even want God, as Calvinists say. It was granted to the Gentiles to be
able to be saved through Jesus too. Just as was proclaimed in the Old Testament
that would happen with the Gentiles.
2 Samuel 22:50 Therefore I will praise you, LORD, among the nations; I will
sing the praises of your name.
Apostle Paul even quotes Psalm 117:1 to let the Gentiles know that it was
said in the Old Testament that they would be brought near to God one day.
Romans 15:11 And again, “Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; let all the
peoples extol him.”
Psalm 66:4 All the earth bows down to you; they sing praise to you, they
sing the praises of your name.”
Luke 24:46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer
and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness
of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48
You are witnesses of these things.
John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people
to myself.”
Psalm 117:1 Praise the LORD, all you nations; extol him, all you peoples.
John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, takes away the sin of the world!
1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours
but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to
be the Savior of the world.
John 4:42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what
you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is
the Savior of the world.”
Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word
of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
Calvinists falsely use Acts 13:48 to support Calvinism. There were Jews and
Gentiles there together. God appointed Gentiles as a nation of people to be
able to have eternal life; the Gentiles were once excluded. All those appointed
to have eternal life—the Gentiles, all of them there believed! Calvinists, and
all Reformers misunderstand that scripture.
Calvinists falsely use 1 Corinthians 2:14, The person without the Spirit
does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them
foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through
the Spirit.
That scripture does not imply that we cannot believe in God after learning
of Him. Verse 12 says, What we have received is not the spirit of the world,
but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely
given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but
in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with
Spirit-taught words. Or Spirit,
interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual
We do not even have to understand the word of God when we first hear of
it. Lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will direct your paths (see Proverbs 3:5-6). We do not even have
to have understanding! We believe, then when we receive the Holy Spirit,
the Holy Spirit teaches us.
Reformers claim that no one can believe and obey God on their own. They say
God has to cause them to believe and save them first so that they can obey.
There is no such thing as faith alone (the false faith alone teaching by
just about every denomination known), they teach faith alone is the only thing
we have to do and that it is not a work. They insist that faith is not a work
so they can keep to their false teaching and misunderstanding when Paul says
not of works as in not in the works of the law which are the purification
works. The Calvinists also misunderstand Paul about not of works so they claim
faith is a work and they came up with we can’t even have faith before being
saved because it would be a damnable work’s salvation.
Faith is a work and so is confessing and repenting of sins and they are the
works we have to do to get saved. We just don’t have to do the works of the law
anymore which are the purification works, because Jesus does those works now.
Christian Defense of the Truth 
Michael D. Morth
September 1, 2011
You said, “Calvinists falsely use the scripture from Isaiah to support their doctrine. Calvinists use verse 6, “All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags.” However, Calvinists do not mention verse 4, how Isaiah tells us about God who acts on behalf of those who wait for him.”
I don’t reject the idea that there are people who “gladly do right”; I count myself among that number, what I do reject is the notion that it is within anyone’s human nature to “gladly do right” without a sovereign act of God upon their hearts. My argument is more about the source of the desire to be “glad” in doing right. I don’t believe that there is an intrinsic goodness in some people that leads them to desire God or His Christ. This reminds me of the Roman Catholic teaching that we are only spiritually wounded and that we just need a little help to come to Christ and to love God. There are far too many Scriptures that talk about the heart of man being wicked, deceitful, at enmity with God, rebellious against God, etc. for me to believe that there may be some innate desire for the true God and His ways. I know from Romans Chapter 1 that humans are born with a knowledge of God, and all types of idol worship exhibit the proclivity of humankind to worship something. Knowing that there is a god is much different from having a saving knowledge of God through special revelation. In the natural realm, general revelation as to God’s existence is actually a condemning knowledge because man (all unregenerate men) suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Romans 1) and exchange the true God for idols of flesh, stone and wood.
The Apostle Paul, in Romans chapter 3, quotes verses from Psalms, Jeremiah, Proverbs, and Isaiah to prove that all people, both Jews and Gentiles alike are under sin’s dominion. I use these Scriptures from Romans 3 to substantiate my understanding of the universality of man’s wicked rebellion against God. Paul’s writings are Scripture and are therefore authoritative; if Paul exegetes these Old Testament passages in this fashion, I believe that he has divine authority to do so.
In my daily reading today, I came across these verses from Romans 8. “For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.” (Romans 8:5-8 ESV). It is my contention that until one is born-again through “the living and abiding word of God” (1 Peter 1:23), that person is still in the flesh and therefore cannot please God because of their hostility to Him. This being born-again is a sovereign work of God on the elect, when, in His perfect timing, and “..according to his great mercy, he…caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ form the dead.” (1 Peter 1:3).
You said, “All of us have become like one who is unclean. If they were born totally depraved, THEN HOW can they BECOME as one who is unclean? Furthermore, this passage is about how even though the Jews were the chosen ones of God, they were just like anyone else, unclean!”
Isaiah was talking about a nation as a whole that was sinful, but within that nation, there were those that were righteous and did have faith in the God of Israel. I don’t see any contradiction in what he is saying. The nation as a whole had fallen away from the ways of Jehovah and from true worship, but there was still a righteous remnant – more on this later.
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AMG
September 1, 2011
You said, “I don’t reject the idea that there are people who “gladly do right”; I count myself among that number, what I do reject is the notion that it is within anyone’s human nature to “gladly do right” without a sovereign act of God upon their hearts. “
First, and most important, is the fact that, there is NO SUCH WORD OF GOD THAT SAYS WE ARE BORN WITHOUT THE CAPABILITY OF EVER BELIEVING IN GOD. THERE IS NO SUCH WORD FROM GOD THAT WE ARE TOTALLY DEPRAVED. GOD’S WORD DOES NOT SAY THAT HE WILL ACT UPON A HEART TO THOSE WHO HATE HIM TO MAKE THEM BELIEVE IN HIM. THOSE ARE MANUFACTRUED DOCTRINES. I DO NOT FOLLOW MAN’S DOCTRINE. I ONLY FOLLOW THE WORD OF GOD. There are people who gladly do right, yet they continued to sin against God’s ways. You believe that God caused them to want to do right—yet God could not cause them to follow through with doing right? THE BIBLE DOES NOT SAY THAT. You add to the Bible when you say there are people who gladly do right **when God acts upon their heart in a sovereign way. ** The Bible says there are people who gladly do right but continue to sin against God’s ways. That is what the Bible says; do not add to God’s word.
You said, “My argument is more about the source of the desire to be “glad” in doing right. I don’t believe that there is an intrinsic goodness in some people that leads them to desire God or His Christ.”
You are now venturing off into your thoughts, and who is the prince of the air? You are letting Satan put thoughts into your head about beliefs that are not from God. There are humble children; there are people with honest and good hearts; there are sinners who love those who love them. In Isaiah we are told that there are people who wanted to do right and remember God’s ways, but they continued to sin against God’s ways. Apostle Paul says he desired to do right, that he wanted to do right, but he could not, not without the help of the Holy Spirit. That is God’s truth. Stop now with the manufactured assumption beliefs from man and the devil.
You said, “This reminds me of the Roman Catholic teaching that we are only spiritually wounded and that we just need a little help to come to Christ and to love God. There are far too many Scriptures that talk about the heart of man being wicked, deceitful, at enmity with God, rebellious against God, etc. for me to believe that there may be some innate desire for the true God and His ways.”
That is your false beliefs creeping in to the word of God. By the way, as for Catholics…Calvinists are so much like Catholics… The similarities of Calvinism and Catholicism are that they both think that the word of God is not understandable by the average person. They believe in whatever their leaders tell them. Catholics have their popes to believe in, and Calvinists have Calvin and Spurgeon, etc. Catholics perform the unbiblical act of infant baptism likewise do Calvinists. Catholics believe repenting is to feel bad about a sin and confess it, all the while continuing the sin likewise do Calvinists. Catholics have killed many for the sake of their religion. Calvinists have deemed many heretics and have had them burned at the stake.
You said, “I know from Romans Chapter 1 that humans are born with a knowledge of God, and all types of idol worship exhibit the proclivity of humankind to worship something.”
What are you saying now? So now, we are not totally depraved but are born with a knowledge of God? Do all Calvinists believe what you just said right there? Sounds like you are getting out of totally depravity. I think Calvinists are trying to get a little trickier when it comes to explaining why the Catholics want to worship God but do not. I will explain to you why many Catholics do not worship God the right way. They do not worship God right because they believe manufactured doctrines, just like the Calvinists.
You said, “Knowing that there is a god is much different from having a saving knowledge of God through special revelation. In the natural realm, general revelation as to God’s existence is actually a condemning knowledge because man (all unregenerate men) suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Romans 1) and exchange the true God for idols of flesh, stone and wood.”
People CAN believe God’s word. Jesus has opened up the eyes of people to understand AFTER they were believers! The Holy Spirit teaches us things…AFTER WE OBEY BY BELIEVING. WE GET THE HOLY SPIRIT AFTER WE BELIEVE, AFTER WE LOVE GOD. People can even lose their salvation! Believe only in God’s word. If you repent of following manufactured doctrines, and if you stay only in God’s word, God will bless you.
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Michael D. Morth
September 8, 2011
You said, “First, and most important, is the fact that, there is NO SUCH WORD OF GOD THAT SAYS WE ARE BORN WITHOUT THE CAPABILITY OF EVER BELIEVING IN GOD.”
I didn’t say “ever”, what I did say is that our faith is preceded by a Sovereign act of God upon our hearts. “…if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 4:3-6 ESV) God, through the Holy Spirit first has to open our eyes to see radiance of Christ’s glory. Before then, the idea of a condescending deity that willing lays down his life to redeem sinners is either going to be a stumbling block or foolishness (1 Corinthians 1:23). If you want some verses that say that God has to act first on our behalf, how about, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44), and, “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:37-40 ESV). The Father doesn’t draw everyone, does He? The text clearly says that it is God that has to be the initiator of genuine saving faith by drawing them to the Son. The Father draws and those that he draws (gives) will come. 1 Peter 2:9 says that God calls us out of darkness into his marvelous light. Romans 8:30 says that God predestines, calls, justifies, and glorifies. What do you do with Ephesians 2:3 which says we all“…were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind? How can some be simultaneously “children of wrath” and have a sincere desire to know God in truth? God doesn’t have wrath for the righteous or His children, He has wrath on te wicked and disobedient.
You said, “THERE IS NO SUCH WORD FROM GOD THAT WE ARE TOTALLY DEPRAVED.”
Maybe there is a misunderstanding about what total Depravity means. Total depravity has never meant that we are as wicked as we could be or that we are totally wicked. What it means is that in relationship to God, mankind’s natural inclination is opposed to the Gospel and in rebellion against God! We are no different from those spoken of in Romans 3:10-18 where Paul is talking about the universal state of sin and wickedness that marks ALL people, Jews and Gentile! When speaking of mankind’s natural sinful state, I use these verses primarily; if Paul, who is a much better exegete than I, interprets those Old Testament verses as applying universally to mankind, I must believe that he knows what he is talking about.
You said, “GOD’S WORD DOES NOT SAY THAT HE WILL ACT UPON A HEART TO THOSE WHO HATE HIM TO MAKE THEM BELIEVE IN HIM.”
Explain then what Ephesians 2 means when it says that we were all, “…following the course of the world, following the prince of the power of the air…carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, …But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love…even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ…” Or how do you interpret Romans 5:8 “but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”? What about Romans 5:10, “For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.”? What about the Apostle Paul’s conversion? The Bible says that while he was breathing out threats against the church and against Jesus himself, God called him. Actually the Bible says that God chose Paul before he was born, as he did Isaiah, Jeremiah, Jacob (Israel) and everyone else who is in Christ. Did not God choose Abram while he was an idol worshiper, and leave all the Gentile nations, in darkness; “…having no hope and without God in this world” (Ephesians 2:12)? God’s choosing comes first and then His call effects its purpose.
You said, “THOSE ARE MANUFACTRUED DOCTRINES. I DO NOT FOLLOW MAN’S DOCTRINE. I ONLY FOLLOW THE WORD OF GOD.”
Do you have a Pastor? Do you have elders, teachers, or evangelists? Do you read books, magazines, or articles that help shape you Biblical understanding? Surely you don’t get all your understanding by just reading the Word without help with interpretation or exposition! Sometimes, while things might not be spelled out exactly, if you consult the whole counsel of God, one can deduce truths from Scripture from the accumulation of corroborating texts. A prime example of this is the Doctrine of the Trinity. The word trinity doesn’t appear anywhere within Scripture, however as one looks at the totality of God’s word, the progressive nature of revelation attests to the truth of one God in three persons.
You said, “There are people who gladly do right, yet they continued to sin against God’s ways. You believe that God caused them to want to do right—yet God could not cause them to follow through with doing right?”
I said that the Prophet Isaiah was talking about 2 different groups of people; one group was the faithful within the 2nd group which was the rebellious nation.
You said, “The similarities of Calvinism and Catholicism are that they both think that the word of God is not understandable by the average person.
I think that you said it once that you weren’t an Arminian, and I would like to say that I am not a Calvinist; I follow the word of God. I may believe in some of Calvin’s doctrine and teaching, but I do so because I have searched the Scriptures and come to the conclusion that some of his teachings are Biblically correct. To say that I believe that the Bible is not understandable is patently untrue. What I do believe is that many people do not look into the Bible and test the teachings that they sit under and blindly ascent to what they are being taught. It was the reformers that wanted to put the Bible into the language of the common man so that they could read the Word of God for themselves and find out about the abuses of the Roman Catholic Church! Many of these founders of the Reformation gave their lives in martyrdom because they dared to put the Bible in the vernacular.
You said, “Catholics perform the unbiblical act of infant baptism likewise do Calvinists.
Well, I happen to be Baptist and I believe in believer baptism. I know that there are some of those of the Reformed Tradition that hold to paedo baptism, and I think that they are wrong.
You said, “Catholics believe repenting is to feel bad about a sin and confess it, all the while continuing the sin likewise do Calvinists.”
I don’t know of any reformed theologians, thinkers, adherents that believe that repentance is how you characterize it. I believe that if you are truly are in Christ, and have put off the old man and put on Christ, continued growth in Holiness is the result, not because of duty, but as fruit of your justification and sanctification.
You said, “Catholics have killed many for the sake of their religion. Calvinists have deemed many heretics and have had them burned at the stake.”
I don’t deny this sad fact. I don’t know enough about this subject to comment any further.
You said, “You said, ‘I know from Romans Chapter 1 that humans are born with a knowledge of God, and all types of idol worship exhibit the proclivity of humankind to worship something.’ What are you saying now? So now, we are not totally depraved but are born with a knowledge of God? Do all Calvinists believe what you just said right there?”
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. (Romans 1:18-25 ESV)
You said, “People CAN believe God’s word. Jesus has opened up the eyes of people to understand AFTER they were believers!
Do you believe that Jesus opened everyone’s eyes? What about those who have never heard?
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AMG
September 8, 2011
You said, “I didn’t say “ever”, what I did say is that our faith is preceded by a Sovereign act of God upon our hearts. “
My reply: If it is as you say, that our faith is preceded by a Sovereign act of God upon our hearts….then that IS saying we cannot believe on our own.
You said, ““…if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 4:3-6 ESV)”
My reply: To all who believe…God does these things.
You said, “God, through the Holy Spirit first has to open our eyes to see radiance of Christ’s glory. Before then, the idea of a condescending deity that willing lays down his life to redeem sinners is either going to be a stumbling block or foolishness (1 Corinthians 1:23).”
My reply: 1 Corinthians 1:23 is about how being wise does not us saved, in fact, the wise try to use the wisdom of the world to decide on what they think of salvation. Salvation is a stumbling block to Jews because they had believed in salvation through works, now God has shown them a better way, but they rejected salvation without works, so they were hardened for not believing. You quote verse 23, but what does verse 21 say? Verse 21 says …God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who BELIEVE.
You said, “ If you want some verses that say that God has to act first on our behalf, how about, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44),
My reply: No one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them to Jesus. That means that the person must first already be a believer in God. They are drawn to Jesus because Jesus speaks the word of God.
You said, “ and, “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:37-40 ESV).””
My reply: They were God’s. They were God’s FIRST because they believed in God. HOWEVER, NOW those already belonging to God—they have to go through Jesus now, they have to go through Jesus to stay God’s. And Jesus will not lose any who were already God’s. Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel. Jesus came for those who already believed in God.
You said, “What do you do with Ephesians 2:3 which says we all“…were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind? How can some be simultaneously “children of wrath” and have a sincere desire to know God in truth? God doesn’t have wrath for the righteous or His children, He has wrath on te wicked and disobedient. “
My reply: We did not come to know Jesus while we were sinning! We came to know him while someone was teaching us, or when we were reading about Jesus from the Bible. See Ephesians 4:18-24.
You said, “Maybe there is a misunderstanding about what total Depravity means. Total depravity has never meant that we are as wicked as we could be or that we are totally wicked. What it means is that in relationship to God, mankind’s natural inclination is opposed to the Gospel and in rebellion against God!”
My reply: That is not in the Bible. That is Calvin’s doctrine.
You said, “We are no different from those spoken of in Romans 3:10-18 where Paul is talking about the universal state of sin and wickedness that marks ALL people, Jews and Gentile! When speaking of mankind’s natural sinful state, I use these verses primarily; if Paul, who is a much better exegete than I, interprets those Old Testament verses as applying universally to mankind, I must believe that he knows what he is talking about. “
My reply: Ecclesiastes says out of RIGHTEOUS MEN, NONE DO NOT EVER SIN. See Ecclesiastes 7:20. Paul is explaining that even believers in God, righteous men, the Jews, even they do not ever sin. That is why we need a Savior. That is why no one overcomes without faith in Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit helps us to stop sinning.
You said, “Explain then what Ephesians 2 means when it says that we were all, “…following the course of the world, following the prince of the power of the air…carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, …But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love…even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ…” “Or how do you interpret Romans 5:8 “but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”? What about Romans 5:10, “For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.”?”
My reply: This means that we did not have to get rid of all our sins before God saved us! It means God will stay with us and help us overcome, by faith in Jesus Christ.
You said, “ What about the Apostle Paul’s conversion? The Bible says that while he was breathing out threats against the church and against Jesus himself, God called him. Actually the Bible says that God chose Paul before he was born, as he did Isaiah, Jeremiah, Jacob (Israel) and everyone else who is in Christ. Did not God choose Abram while he was an idol worshiper, and leave all the Gentile nations, in darkness; “…having no hope and without God in this world” (Ephesians 2:12)? God’s choosing comes first and then His call effects its purpose. “
My reply: God knows our hearts. God knows us before we were even born.
You said, “Do you have a Pastor? Do you have elders, teachers, or evangelists? Do you read books, magazines, or articles that help shape you Biblical understanding? Surely you don’t get all your understanding by just reading the Word without help with interpretation or exposition! Sometimes, while things might not be spelled out exactly, if you consult the whole counsel of God, one can deduce truths from Scripture from the accumulation of corroborating texts. A prime example of this is the Doctrine of the Trinity. The word trinity doesn’t appear anywhere within Scripture, however as one looks at the totality of God’s word, the progressive nature of revelation attests to the truth of one God in three persons. “
My reply: I check on everything that someone tries to teach me. I do not use the word Trinity, because it is not in the Bible. The word of God does not explain using the word Trinity, so I do not either.
You said, “I said that the Prophet Isaiah was talking about 2 different groups of people; one group was the faithful within the 2nd group which was the rebellious nation.”
My reply: The righteous wanted to do right, but they could not. We cannot overcome, unless we are saved and receive the Holy Spirit.
You said, “I think that you said it once that you weren’t an Arminian, and I would like to say that I am not a Calvinist; I follow the word of God. I may believe in some of Calvin’s doctrine and teaching, but I do so because I have searched the Scriptures and come to the conclusion that some of his teachings are Biblically correct.”
My reply: Calvinists taught you total depravity. Calvinists taught you that humans cannot believe on their own. Calvinists taught you not to believe Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Calvinists taught you that all men do not have a chance. Calvinists add things that are not in the Bible, and things that go against the word of God. I am glad you do not like to be called a Calvinist.
You said,” To say that I believe that the Bible is not understandable is patently untrue. What I do believe is that many people do not look into the Bible and test the teachings that they sit under and blindly ascent to what they are being taught. It was the reformers that wanted to put the Bible into the language of the common man so that they could read the Word of God for themselves and find out about the abuses of the Roman Catholic Church! Many of these founders of the Reformation gave their lives in martyrdom because they dared to put the Bible in the vernacular. “
My reply: That is good that Martin Luther exposed the Roman Catholic Church for much falseness, however, Luther did not go far enough. Luther also still believed in infant baptism, and real blood and flesh in the wafer. Calvin as Luther, added a false doctrine, John Calvin added a lot of false doctrines, he also had people put to death for being what he called heretics.
You said, “Well, I happen to be Baptist and I believe in believer baptism. I know that there are some of those of the Reformed Tradition that hold to paedo baptism, and I think that they are wrong.”
My reply: This is so good to hear.
You said, “I don’t know of any reformed theologians, thinkers, adherents that believe that repentance is how you characterize it. I believe that if you are truly are in Christ, and have put off the old man and put on Christ, continued growth in Holiness is the result, not because of duty, but as fruit of your justification and sanctification.”
My reply: I debated other Calvinists who seemed did not quite get it about actually putting off the old man. Remember, most Calvinists believe in infant baptism. You believe in a believers baptism, so you understand more about giving up sin. Catholics do not understand giving up sin either…nor does anyone who believes in their infant baptism.
You said, “Do you believe that Jesus opened everyone’s eyes? What about those who have never heard?”
My reply: Jesus tells Paul he is sending him to the Jews and Gentiles to OPEN THEIR EYES and turn them from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. How do you think Paul is going to open the eyes of the Jews and the Gentiles? Remember, faith comes from hearing the word, and Jesus sent Paul to preach the gospel. 1 Corinthians 1:18 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel–not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
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Michael D. Morth
September 8, 2011
Can I ask where you go to church or what your denominational affiliation is? Do you have certain Preachers/Teachers that you like? What kind of books do you read? What are you reading now. Any book recommendations?
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AMG
September 8, 2011
Aren’t you going to comment on my reply to you? As for what church I belong to, I belong to the body of Christ. The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails–given by one Shepherd. Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.
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Michael D. Morth
September 10, 2011
In my last response, I was trying to be personable, rather that going toe-to-toe with you, I was hoping maybe we could try to learn something else about each other rather than focusing on our differences.
This is my position in a nutshell and I’ll try to incorporate in my response answers to your questions.
• I believe that from all eternity, since before the foundations of the world, God chose those who he would save and those that he would leave in their sin and rebellion.
• I believe that ALL persons are born separated from God and that when Jesus talks to Nicodemus about the need to be born-again, he is using the water to represent natural birth and when he uses the word Spirit he is referring to the Holy Spirit. Everyone is that is born is born in the natural and are therefore children of wrath. Everyone that is to be saved must be born-again from above and this cannot happen apart from God’s electing (choosing) grace.
• We sin because we are sinners by nature; we are not sinners because we sin.
• A completely sovereign act of mercy and grace on God’s part is necessary to open the blind eyes of the spiritually dead in order for them to be attracted to Christ and to hate their sin. Grace is totally unmerited and God bestows it upon anyone that he will.
• I believe that the verses in Ephesians Chapter 2 are chronological; everyone begins walking in the way of the prince of the air and in rebellion towards God, but God takes the initiative to call (draw) the elect to salvation.
• I believe that faith comes by hearing the word of Christ (the Gospel).
• I believe that for the elect, when the Word of Christ is preached (or read), God, through the Holy Spirit convicts them of sin, righteousness, and judgment. This happens in God’s timing; it may not happen at the first exposure to the Gospel, but if they are truly elect, it will happen according to God’s will.
• God gives the elect the ability to repent and the gift of faith to believe, both of these are gifts given to the elect only.
• The elect have nothing to boast about in this work because it is all of God; not a result of works, it is a free gift given by a loving God to his children. God adopts his children, we don’t adopt God.
• God did know Paul’s heart, and it was totally opposed to Christ and the church. Paul was having people killed for being followers of Christ. To a much lesser degree (outwardly), we have been saved while we were in rebellion against God’s ways. While we were enemies, we were reconciled to God.
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AMG
September 10, 2011
You said, “I believe that from all eternity, since before the foundations of the world, God chose those who he would save and those that he would leave in their sin and rebellion.”
My reply: God made the plan of salvation before the creation of the world, to save those who would BELIEVE. Why leave that out? It is God’s word.
You said, “I believe that ALL persons are born separated from God and that when Jesus talks to Nicodemus about the need to be born-again, he is using the water to represent natural birth and when he uses the word Spirit he is referring to the Holy Spirit. Everyone is that is born is born in the natural and are therefore children of wrath. Everyone that is to be saved must be born-again from above and this cannot happen apart from God’s electing (choosing) grace.”
My reply: We who OBEY receive the Holy Spirit. Those who do not believe do not receive the Holy Spirit. Calvinism twists the scriptures.
You said, “We sin because we are sinners by nature; we are not sinners because we sin. “
My reply: What kind of twisting is that? A Calvinist taught twist, or a twist of your own making?
You said, “A completely sovereign act of mercy and grace on God’s part is necessary to open the blind eyes of the spiritually dead in order for them to be attracted to Christ and to hate their sin. Grace is totally unmerited and God bestows it upon anyone that he will.”
My reply: God hardened His chosen who would not believe. In addition, faith comes from HEARING the message, from being taught and convinced!
You said, “I believe that the verses in Ephesians Chapter 2 are chronological; everyone begins walking in the way of the prince of the air and in rebellion towards God, but God takes the initiative to call (draw) the elect to salvation. “
My reply: To those who believe. That is what the word of God says.
You said, “I believe that faith comes by hearing the word of Christ (the Gospel).”
My reply: You are so confused that you do not even know what you are saying. You believe faith comes from hearing the word, but many other times you said the Holy Spirit must first allow you to hear and have faith. You cannot have it both ways. Either you believe faith comes from hearing the word or faith comes from the Holy Spirit allowing you to believe.
You said, “I believe that for the elect, when the Word of Christ is preached (or read), God, through the Holy Spirit convicts them of sin, righteousness, and judgment. This happens in God’s timing; it may not happen at the first exposure to the Gospel, but if they are truly elect, it will happen according to God’s will.”
My reply: Use scripture! In addition, are you saying that unbelievers do not know when they are breaking the law? Nonsense.
You said, “God gives the elect the ability to repent and the gift of faith to believe, both of these are gifts given to the elect only.”
My reply: Use scripture. Nowhere in scripture does it say we are incapable of believing. Nowhere does it say that God “gives the elect the ability to repent.”
You said, “The elect have nothing to boast about in this work because it is all of God; not a result of works, it is a free gift given by a loving God to his children. God adopts his children, we don’t adopt God.”
My reply: We have NOTHING TO BOAST ABOUT BECAUSE ANY ONE CAN BELIEVE. IT IS LIKE DRINKING WATER! Calvinists say God chose some to save for no known reason—now that would be something to boast about!
You said, “God did know Paul’s heart, and it was totally opposed to Christ and the church. Paul was having people killed for being followers of Christ. To a much lesser degree (outwardly), we have been saved while we were in rebellion against God’s ways. While we were enemies, we were reconciled to God.”
My reply: Paul was one ABNORMALLY BORN! Did you hear that? Read 1 Corinthians 15:8. I notice that I give you scripture for all my answers, yet you dismiss the word of God as if the word is NOTHING.
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AMG
November 23, 2011
Calvinists believe that no one can believe in God, or seek God, unless God enables them to believe first. Calvinists say we all hate God, nor do we even want Him, and in this state of hate and not wanting, Calvinists say that the Holy Spirit regenerates a person to believe, they are then born again at that moment. Calvinists, ask yourselves these following questions; however, you will not be able to answer these questions and still stay true to your beliefs.
1) Why does God have to harden anyone? Why does God just not enable them to believe? (See John 12:40.)
2) Why does God search our hearts if we all only have evil hearts anyway? (See John 4:23; Proverbs 20:27.) If all only evil hearts have, what does it mean that God who knows their hearts showed He accepted them by giving them His Spirit? (See Acts 15:8.)
3) Jesus explains that the door will be opened to those who knock and the door is not answered because of friendship. How is it that a person all ready born again needs to knock? God answers because of the audacity of the knocker and not because of the friendship. How does Calvinism explain that? (See Luke 11:5-10.)
4) If, the Holy Spirit regenerates a person first to believe and at the same time causes the person to be born again, then when and why would anyone have to get forceful, or violent to get into the kingdom of heaven, if they already have it? (See Matthew 11:12.)
5) If Jesus is not the potential Savior of all men, then why is there mention of “especially of those who believe” in 1 Timothy 4:10?
6) Why is there a distinction made between faith and works, if they are both solely done by the Holy Spirit anyways? (See Ephesians 2:8-9.)
7) The Bible says our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:14. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From being CONVINCED, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11. Why does it not say anywhere in the Bible that our faith comes from the Holy Spirit causing us to believe by regeneration?
8 Why does God credit us with righteousness for believing, if the Holy Spirit is the one who caused us to believe and we had nothing to do with it? (See Romans 4:20-24.)
9) How does anyone seek God and wait for salvation from Him, if we cannot seek God any way unless we are already born again and thus already have salvation? (See Lamentations 3:25-26.)
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